Curse

vader · Aug 28, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I joined a group yesterday just for some random stuff and the leader laughed at my build and kicked me saying it wasn't a good Mesmer build. I play a Domination build and have a lot of fun with it:

[visions of [email protected]][energy [email protected]][ether [email protected]][pain [email protected]][[email protected]][[email protected]][ether [email protected]][cry of [email protected]]

I guess its not a true Mesmer build because I'm doing tons of damage (well, enemies damage themselves with it) with it but is it really all that bad for PvE?

Tommy's · Aug 28, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I never play mesmer, but as far as i concern this build is quite ok. The skills arent really linked to eachother, but as single skills they are ok. I just dont know about the elite. Pain inverter more usefull in HM, aswell energy burn not so much seen.

I really woundnt know, but i wouldnt laugh at you

sixofone · Aug 28, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Don't take what some random leader says. If they were smart, they'd suggest a build - what it is their team is looking for.

Unfortunately, PUGging, chances are they wanted a Mesmer for interrupts rather than damage. (Mesmers aren't "nukers" to the PUG community in general. Sure, you can do damage, but that's not their mindset.)

[Backfire] isn't that great a skill in higher end PvE where you want to prevent a spell from getting cast, not just punish the caster after the fact. Otherwise, I think your bar is fine.

Try checking out an [assassin's promise] Me/A build, or other [cry of pain] builds, too!

But forget about that leader kicking you out. Like I said, a good leader would work with you, letting you know what build compliments the team and the area they are doing.

Take out backfire and add [arcane echo] so you can get 2 castings of [cry of pain] off - that would help!

Cebe · Aug 28, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Remove Backfire, Remove Ether Signet, Remove Pain Inverter

Add in Power Drain, Add in Drain Enchantment, Add in Cry of Frustration ...maybe.

It's not a bad build, it's just not that good either.

To be honest though, you had Cry of Pain...I didn't think PuGs wanted anything else out of a Mesmer...

Or go down the Assassin's Promise route.

The Trouble With Me · Aug 28, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Its not bad, but the Main thing is that you have fun with it, this is a game after all and not some kind of military exercise. I usually stick to builds that i enjoy running.

kratimas · Aug 28, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Well, being is how PvE can be done with almost nothing on your skill bar then your build is fine. The question has to be do you have fun playing it.

So many people forget that this is just a game and it is supposed to be fun for all the players.

This would be one of the main reasons I run with only H/H and never PUG. I can play how I like to play and use what ever skills I want to use. I am not stuck in some stupid CC build that someone thinks is ubber or that nothing else will work.

Just my 2.34430908034523458009324 cents worth.

Quaker · Aug 28, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader

I joined a group yesterday just for some random stuff and the leader laughed at my build and kicked me saying it wasn't a good Mesmer build.

I think this comes down to a couple of related things.

- People in general, and particularly younger people tend to see every thing in a black&white, uber/sux kind of way. That is, if they don't like/use something, it sux - if they do like/use it, it's the greatest thing ever and you're an idiot if you don't.
- (Younger) people tend to form groups and are very socially aware of wanting to fit into the group.
- a lot of GW players - with reference to the above - tend to follow-the-pack and end up catagorizing classes and what they should do. So stuff like "Assasins are fragile", "Monks heal", "Mesmers interrupt", get passed around like gospel. And, of course, there are the build-du-jours.

Overall, your build looks good enough to me. I would agree about the [[Backfire] though, and the build is a little too jack-of-all-trades for me, but I wouldn't kick you out. Especially if we are just doing "random stuff". Very few places in GW really require anything special.

Gill Halendt · Aug 28, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

To me, that bar is pretty much ok. I usually run a similar build for everyday-PvE and I have never had problem with it, while still having lots of fun.

That's because I never PuG, EVER. I usually laugh @ PuGs as much as they laugh at bars that are too hard for them to even understand.

The Meth · Aug 28, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

If you are looking for pug acceptance the easiest build change would be to swap out any one of those skills for [mending].

Personally I would say you should take a bit more energy management and a way to use [Cry of Pain] more often. Replacing [Vision's of Regret] with [Assassin's Promise] works well if you have a group that can focus attacks and kill a single target quickly. If your group isn't that coordinated (ie you are in a pug) replace [Backfire] or [Energy Burn] with [Arcane Echo], then replace [Ether Signet] with [Auspicious Incantation]. This should make sure your energy is much more stable doing battle and allows you to cast much more often.

Songbringer · Aug 28, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

That build is bad because no ursan. Haha I am kidding. No it is not that bad. I probably wouldn't bring that elite though. Then again I don't know what elite I would use so.

Painbringer · Aug 28, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

The only thing I see is energy management (like the skills celestial beaver mentioned a little disruption and energy return can go a long way.) Cry of frustration is an awesome skill in PVE. Backfire is a great skill but it’s an expensive skill that can only hit one caster at a time. Great for pvp but a mob of critters in PVE not so much IMO

[Glyph of lesser energy] is also an option if you can have a ele as a secondary

Numa Pompilius · Aug 28, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Frankly, that is a pretty bad build. You've only got four domination skills, out of which your elite is pretty much useless and power burn and backfire rarely very effective in PvE.

Also it's a straight damage bar, something mesmers don't really do as well as, to be blunt, all other professions.

The PvE skills are good, but hey, they always are.

If you want straight damage & warrior hate, I'd suggest switching to an illusion magic bar, perhaps something like the CoP mesmer bars in this message:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10315892

FWIW, my domination mesmer bar currently looks like this:
OQBDAqwDSNAEBDBaA2gKfXAZAA
Drain Enchantment and Shatter Hex are optionals, which I switch for e.g. Pain Inverter and Ebon Vanguard Assassin as the needs shift. It's effectively a support and caster shutdown bar, not a straight damage bar.

Knight O Cydonia · Aug 28, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Needs more [[Necrosis]!

Im not a fan of Eburn or E-Nightmare, just too expensive / long recharge. I'd look to take Pdrain / Guilt / Drain Enchantment to give you a bit more emanagement.

I'm still not convinced by VoR yet. Is it good or bad? I can't make my mind up

Kyomi Tachibana · Aug 28, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

It's not a fantastic build, but it's not too bad either. 99% of pugs are just stupid, honestly. I've gotten kicked out of pugs for running a standard AP Dom bar because they thought that was bad.

Ether Signet is a horrid energy management skill to use . I prefer to use [Auspicious Incantation] or better yet [Assassin's Promise]. Energy management AND insta-recharge? Yes and please.

[Backfire] isn't all that great, [Empathy] isn't fantastic, but it works.

Not a huge fan of [Ether Nightmare] myself, but it gets the job done for Cry of Pain, but seeing as you have 3 other Mesmer hexes to do it, that could be set for something more useful, like one of the Ebon Vanguard Battle Standards, or Assassin Support, or Great Dwarf Weapon.

t00115577 · Aug 28, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Yhy a sup rune? Guess it does dmg, but leave that to the eles and other dmg classes. -75 health isnt great, even in pve (regardless of how insanely easy it is)

Looks energy intense, but other than that its good for pve imo.

Would agree with Knight O Cydonia and add in necrosis, with fast casting is awsoume

faraaz · Aug 28, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I run this:

[build;OQdTAQB7VaBSDYJwGkFkDIHYFEA]

It's pretty damn awesome, if you can use Sin's Promise right. Plus I run discordway in PvE, both NM & HM, so this build compliments it nicely. Being able to keep Shadow Sanctuary on you almost 100% of the time is just gravy.

You'll find that there's a lot of common skills. Oh and about Backfire...as long as it is used right, I don't think there's any trouble carrying this on your bar. Imagine that Monk spamming Reversal of Fortune in HM. Good luck trying to interrupt that

However, slap a Backfire on him and he atleast takes a good 300-400 damage trying to heal everyone else. And again, I disagree with whoever tells you mesmers cant do damage. In my experience, the ranking goes (for casters ONLY mind you, because Sins win PvE):

1) Necro
2) Mesmer
3) Ritualist
4) Whatever else

Hmm...I think that about covers it.

Damian979 · Aug 28, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Unfortunately pug mentality is that mesmers are only good for two things: shutdown and [cry of pain].

I tried pugging Hell's one time with my ranger and had an ele rage kick me after saying that [winter] was going to screw his fire build's dps. Ignore that guy, just look at most pugs as henchies with a free will.

Gill Halendt · Aug 28, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight O Cydonia

Needs more [[Necrosis]
I'm still not convinced by VoR yet. Is it good or bad? I can't make my mind up

Me too. I think it depends on the situations. Used against enemies who rely on skill spamming, such as elementalists or monks, VoR shines. I'm trying it while playing around and it's not bad at all, just not as good as I was hoping tough.

sixofone · Aug 28, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

[visions of regret] is good. It's the Mesmer version of [spiteful spirit], which should have been a Mesmer skill to begin with!

It's better in some ways than SS. At least, I think it is - some people disagree.

And, it gives a Mesmer one more AoE hex in their arsenal. For PvE, that's a blessing!

Richardt · Aug 28, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

The new [[visions of regret] is pretty spiffy-I have mesmer buddies that swear by it. Try it in places like Urgoz.

As to the OP's build (not being a mesmer expert myself) it's decent-not good, but not bad either. Needs more energy management I'd say.